Official Luthiers Forum!

I have something of a suggestion, but it's a few short paragraphs down.

Long-time GAL member here, former ASIA member. Joined once, let it lapse. Still feel a little like a heel about it.

First, although I have never met anyone in the flesh who has posted in this thread, I feel I have come to know many of you from your writings online. Nearly to a one, you have terrific attitudes that I admire and that have earned my respect. And Rick Davis, who is probably feeling pretty beat up about now (and maybe for years!), has always seemed like great guy to me, and makes me laugh regularly.

As mentioned, before the Internet guitar builders were likely desparate for connection with brethren as well as for more and better information. In fact, ASIA formed despite the existence of GAL and probably did so for that very reason: connection and information more specific to guitar makers.

Things have changed. We have many places such to get reliable, quick answers to questions. Folks are providing items that used to be fodder for a magazine on their own web sites.

To me, it seems clear that the reasons for a full-fledged magazine as an informational source are getting fewer and fewer and therefore _novel_ material is harder to come by.

Want proof that we're saturated? Look at the ASIA bulletin board. It's dead. Let's not cry over that, let's just recognize it for what it is (and realize WHY it is).

So here's my idea.

If instead of an expensive, full-color-glossy magazine, ASIA return to something that is simple and cheap to produce (say a newsletter), that has the principal goal of fostering connection among guitar builders. Run ads from suppliers, classifieds, and info on ASIA gatherings--that sort of useful stuff--and charge $20 a year for membership.

Got a full-fledged article? Great, ASIA now posts those for FREE access on their website.

So that's it. Give up on "Guitarmaker" in the face of the evidence that we're overloaded with that kind of information and recognize there is a real reason it's been floundering for years.

The world is changing, let's change with it.

Just my two cents.   Bob Steidl38403.4755787037

Jim,

Please accept my apologies for not responding to your membership renewal on 12/28 via PayPal. I had just taken over the responsibilities of the Membership Coordinator position and was directing my efforts towards the setup of the PayPal/credit card/bank accounts for ASIA on the east coast.

We also received your initial membership to ASIA on August 2004 via PayPal, which would have been for the year 2004. I'm not sure whether or not you received the 2004 issues (#47/48/49), but you are scheduled to receive Issue #50 directly from the publisher due out momentarily. Let me know if you have not gotten the above-mentioned issues. Your current membership is through 2005, expiring 1/1/2006.

The ASIA database listed on the website is from November 2004, and I don't believe it has been updated. I believe the ASIA Board members will be discussing the upgrade of the website shortly.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any future membership questions.

Nadine Nelson
ASIArtisans@aol.com

I don't know. I like guitar maker magazine. I would hate to see that go away.

True the forums are great, but by that logic, there is no new room for entrants. Clearly we have all seen new boards emerge and thrive. Just look at the OLF. Each has it's own tone and flair that make it unique.. The MIMF certainly has its place, but is different than the OLF, and both luthier based boards are different from the 13th fret (I know there are lots of others too).. All are good in their own way, but different enough to appeal to a wide variety of needs.

My guess as to why the ASIA board has not got wind in its sales yet is that it is not a stand alone entity (as MIMF, OLF, or 13thfret) or has a bit of a different spin on other boards (AG, AGPM). It may take some time for it to find its niche. I wouldn't give up on it.

I think the magazine is a good focal point that happens 4 times per year. As much as I rely on the boards for daily info, I can't tell you how excited I am when I get one of the quarterly journals in my mailbox.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Please feel free to contact me directly regarding YOUR ASIA membership and renewals. The database I maintain is the one that goes to the publisher for the mailings of the magazines and is more current than the website.

Nadine Nelson
ASIA Membership Coordinator
ASIArtisans@aol.com

Dan trying to get one of my buds who came to your workshop Dale Beauchamp to get here. Good guy Great to see you here. This is a great great site

Bob,

I appreciate your two cents but, my feeling is that cheapening something never improved it. I've even received one e-mail saying that we should just diss-band ASIA, and forget the whole thing. I'm saddened by responses like these.

ASIA has had strong support for it's efforts in the past and, judging by the majority of responses in just this thread alone, that desire to see ASIA succeed and grow once again is still strong.

I sincerely hope that, as we change and grow, you'll find some value in what we do, and what we'll strive to represent to the community as a whole.

Bill

Bob, You've posted some valid points but for me I have to say I like the magazine. I haven't been a member that long but the issues I've received I've enjoyed. I look forward to when it arrives in the mail, grabbing a cup of coffee and spending some quite time with it. It doesn't matter that I can get the same insights faster on the various forums out there. I spend too much time on the computer as it is.      

I will probably never attend the symposium because it is both too far and bad timing (work wise). As you said the A.S.I.A forum is not active and with the many quality forums such as this one, it likely will never be that active. So really all that links me to A.S.I.A. is the magazine. I really don't care if they arrive late or not, I say keep 'em coming.

Bill, Dan, Frank and Sylvan, thank you for the time and effort you've put into this organization and also for taking the time to visit our little corner of the internet here and discussion openly the problems you're facing. Keep up the "good fight".

Bill and Roy,

I too enjoyed the magazine very much when I received it. My suggestion was not intended to weaken ASIA as an organization, merely to suggest that the principal means by which ASIA communicates might be better served by an alternate approach. One that was more efficient in terms of time and money.

I was suggesting that the many-year struggle with Guitarmaker may just be writing on the wall.

Again, it was just a well-intentioned thought. I'm sure ASIA will survive; I hope it flourishes.

Bob

I'm new to this forum but have been building for a few years and have learned much from all of you. I am a former ASIA member and will resubscribe due to this topic string. Since I live in Maryland, I am also looking forward to attending the symposium. Bill, Dan, and Frank - what can I say - with you all on the team we wiil have a vibrant and productive association of which to be a member. I will help in any way possible and will continue to support ASIA and its cause of promoting the luthiery community. Thanks for all of your efforts and the unselfish sharing of your knowledge that has enabled me to build guitars.

Nadine, Bill, Frank & Dan:
I must admit that I have had an article on the back burner for the magazine and following this thread has laid a guilt trip on me. Sometimes we just need our toes stepped on don't we. Long story short, who should I send it to (need an email address)? I've been editing it for the last two days now so it's about ready.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

On-line is cool, and I spend 'way too much time at it, but there is no substitute for either face time or a print publication. I hate to tell you guys how often I drag out all of my magazines and just read them through in order. There's so much good stuff there that you're always finding something 'new', either because you forgot about it, or because you weren't up to that level the last time you read it.

You can't file away a Symposium, of course, but it serves its own purpose. E-mail lacks nuance, and even IM is not as immediate as sitting down with somebody and asking questions over cafeteria food. Did you ever read a transcription of one of those talks or classes at a meeting, and thought of an obvious question that nobody there at the time asked? Here's your chance, bucko.

Yes, there are problems with ASIA. GAL has had it's share too. Things don't always work out exactly the way they're 's'posed to': sometimes they work out better. But you have to work them out.

Looking forward to the Symposium.

OK, just finished signing up for an ASIA membership this morning. They say every little bit helps.

I'm hoping for good things with all the new board members there now. Bet of luck to you guys getting things back on track!

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

It was at the last ASIA Symposium that I went to Alan Carruth's class on Chladni plate tuning. I had read tons about it but it didnt gel for me until I saw and heard it up close. Since then it has changed the way I build...Thanks

If you are planning on attending, save up and bring plenty of money as the vendor fair is awesome the auction is not only fun but has some amazing deals to be had...the proceeds of the auction go to support ASIA. I was lucky enough to win John Monteleone's handmade wide belt sander of which the only other one like it is the one that William Cumpiano uses. It was written up in FWW #58.

My biggest thrill though had to be meeting so many famous and masterful luthiers.

Gosh, you go away for a few days and look what happens! I guess I'll have
to be sure never to be anywhere without Internet access.

First, if anyone has joined (or renewed) and not received magazines or an
acknowledgement, let me know. It's some sort of error (most likely due to
transferring the membership coordination) and I want it corrected
immediately. That's easy -- let me and/or Nadine know and it'll be fixed.

Second, before the Board decided to go to a calendar-year membership
beginning in 2004, I made certain that everyone received four magazines
for their subscription, whether that took 12 months or 14, or whatever.
No one lost money as a result of the magazines being late. If you feel that
we stiffed you, let me know and I'll see that it's corrected.

Third, the magazine is the most important product of ASIA, but it's
certainly not all. The Symposium is a huge member benefit -- as the
letters above attest. We hold it every two years (this year's Symposium,
June 15-19, will be the fourth I've managed), the workshops are fantastic,
there are hands-on learning opportunities as well as demos, talks, and
panels with many of the finest luthiers working today. I was going to start
listing some of the past workshops, but the list got so long it was
ridiculous. If you think you have anything left to learn about fretted
instruments, you need to be at the Symposium.

ASIA works for its members in other ways. At the last two Healdsburg
shows I brought my laptop and ran a slide show with members'
instruments. Members had a presence at Healdsburg even though they
weren't there. As ASIA's representative, I've talked with stores, media, and
writers about members' works -- not my own, yours. As a result of their
membership and our efforts, members have been interviewed on TV, on
radio (one show was picked up by Voice of America: ASIA members were
heard in Asia, Europe, South America ...) I have always strived to find new
and better ways to help the members be savvy, successful business
people. That's as much part of our mission as building and repairing.

Finally, and most important, I took this job because I was enthusiastic
about a MEMBER-RUN lutherie organization. ASIA is unique in this way.
Members elect the Board, members help decide the Symposium structure,
members contribute articles to "guitarmaker." If members just pay their
dues and wait for someone else to do the work, the organization suffers
even if the Director/Editor and the Board are busting their chops. If ASIA
was structured from the top down, where the Director made the decisions
and the Board rubber-stamped it and the membership followed like
sheep, I wouldn't be interested in the job, or the organization.

Perhaps my major failing, during 6+ years of herding you cats, is not
drawing the members into greater involvement with the magazine and
other activities. I've tried, with modest success at times, but not to the
extent I would like. As a result, the magazine in particular has been in
trouble. I take some pride in the content of "guitarmaker" and if I can't get
articles of value to members, I struggle with the question of publishing
on time or waiting until the publication is worth the price of mailing and
your membership. Had I been better able to encourage and develop new
writers (and increase the membership to where it ought to be!), this
wouldn't be the problem it is.

I'm full of ideas for the future of ASIA -- and so are the Board members.
But I can't do it alone on a part-time basis and the Board can't do it by
themselves, either. What's needed is a member attitude adjustment.
Whether you're a new member with a one-year subscription or an old-
timer lifetime member, you are an essential part of a participatory
organization. As I see it, MEMBERS actively contributing -- articles,
symposium workshops, new projects, new ideas -- are the key to making
us successful.

Hi everyone,
I wanted to weigh in on all of this, having just stepped in from the spray booth,nothing is more satisfying than not screwing up a sunburst late at night... so if there is a typo or two please forgive me...I have read through the entire thread tonight, in preperation for a board meeting in the morning and wanted to say thanks for all the patient input, great thoughts positive and negative... Thanks for having enough faith in the organizations future to re up now when we need you most, as well as to attend this Symposium. I wanted to just share a few thoughts, Sylvan is right , we need to get four issues out a year, and his post has contributed so much by bringing all of you into the discussion. This is the core of ASIA's future, It has to be member involvement! I have had the pleasure of serving on ASIA's board for over 7 years and I have watched the organization in good and bad times continue to survive,and sometimes this is on pure will power, At times Rick has provided most of that will power..In fact the very first board meeting I attended was in the Benedetto,Taylor,Manzer,Laskin,Hostetler,era, The first topic of discussion then was "is ASIA Nececary" as intimidated as I was by this collection of rascals,I was shocked! but understood that we really are a young organization,still trying to define itself, coming out of a period of insane luthierie growth. We have to grow and change with the times, and I think we have a great future and a great new board, we WILL solve the 4 magazine problem this year. and have satisfactory reporatge of fund allocation. We are a volunteer organization with a paid director. We are examining the structure of the directors job as well. This thread will be an agenda item for the meeting. This is the time when ASIA can really come out of its adolescence and become the organization its member want it to be... You need to tell us what you want us to be... We are way more than a magazine, we are a nexus of cellular luthierie development, we are the Symposium, we are a fraternal organization.. we are a group of Obsessive cumpulsive craftsman, It is place where you recognize that " there are othere like me",that special ward in the asylum... and we are not in competition with the GAL's fine work... ASIA should make us all better craftsman.., but we should dang well get 4 issues in whatever form we need to do out to the membership,I give you my assurance I and the board will do everything we can to see these obvious problems are corrected. This may mean making fundamental structural changes.. I think we have the best chance to improve things,I have seen yet, right at this time... so that right now the best thing anyone can do to help is to re join, get your apprentices/employees,students, and associates to join...and continue to participate, email or call board members, we will greatfully find a way for you to help...We are committed to improving all the areas brought up in the forum and finding ways to communicate with the membership more effectiveley.
Tom Ribbecke

Jim,

"In any organization, attitude comes from the top down."

You're right about that, and at times ASIA has accidentally acted
arrogantly. I have a personal commitment to involve as many people as
possible in decision-making and contributing to the organization's
activities. But, I'm taking the responsibility for not being consistently
successful. At times, under pressure, it's too easy just to do what needs
to be done rather than try to encourage more involvement.

If members remain passive consumers when they could be actively
steering and contributing to the organization, they're missing a
significant part of the organization's value. I'd love to see this discussion
lead to more member involvement in ASIA's direction, and not just to a
few memberships and magazine articles.Rick Davis38407.4184837963

Just my 2 cents...I Appreciate how Sylvan feels...however I see the same type of politicking and B.S. at every condo owners association, mobile home park asociation, and even when I give advice here on this forum...everyone...each one of us has a slightly different reason/agenda. We all get offended when things aren't up to our par/expectantcies etc. So all I can say is these people are all volunteers...some work harder..some could care less...but they are all serving for Free! Those that are paid and do not perform to a certain expected level should be fired! But it's up to us the active members to see that this happens.

My earlier reponse was to "get up and do something". I don't want to be misunderstood...I myself don't know "who or what is to blame". Everyone involved may be working very hard and other factors may be pulling things down. I AM NOT KNOCKING ANY ONE PERSON. I am simply saying everything is resolvable and fixable. That's all. I wish people would accept other's offers for help. It seems like there are an aweful lot who care if the number of views and responses are any indication.
I have written several articles for the Mag. and have not recently, only because of personal circumstances...so perhaps in my own way I too am partly to blame for not keeping the torch going. Not everyone is capable to work as hard as the other but in the end somehow the job gets done...I hope that the same will be true here and that this period of " down time" will come to pass and a better/new tommorrow will bring a better association. It's up to all of us. Dave-SKG38407.9437962963

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Jim & Dave,

I appreciate your comments, and understand where you're coming from. I have to say though, that with an organization such as ASIA, the membership and organization leadership are spread far and wide, so it's going to take a little time to respond to all of these suggestions, including your volunteering to do some writing etc, Jim. With your background, you should be able to contribute to the Guitarmaker Magazine with some great interviews etc. You don't have to be a pro at building guitars to ask good questions, you just need to do your homework and have good interviewing skills.
Perhaps you can bring a tape recorder and camera with you to the Symposium to do some interviews there. You could easily get a couple years worth of articles on builders.
So be patient, keep sending them reminder emails, make a phone call or two, and hopefully once they're done with their next Board meeting, they will be able to take some action in that regard.

I've met Rick Davis, and he's a good guy. He only wants the best for the organization. I had a chance to observe Tom Ribbecke at the Newport show, and he seemed like a class act. All the folks who are associated with ASIA, or who were associated with ASIA are terrific people, and have layed a good foundation. Hopefully, they will take advantage of offers by folks like yourselves.

I'm going to put my article about my binding jig on a disk for them, so hopefully that's going to help.

I look back at the last few Guitarmaker Magazine's I have, and I see articles by Hank Mauel, Craig Lavin, Mike Mahar, David Bland CPA, and Ed Laetz, all folks I know from here or from the NEL group. ASIA is happy to get articles, no matter what the topic or who the writer is. Take some initiative. Write something. If we give them so many good articles they don't know which ones to use first, that's a good thing. Then we'll see a good start to getting those four issues per year out, and on time.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Not to pile on Jim... but if I may make one suggestion... Don't wait for someone to tell you what to do... just do ** something **. Clearly you have already come up with an idea -- and I think it is a pretty good one. Interview a few guitar makers, either tell their story in bio form, or come up with a clever angle to the story (for instance... ask the master luthiers what was their biggest struggle to learn, or who taught them, or whatever... just something of interest). Maybe an article on the OLF would be cool. :-) Write it up and send it in.

If they publish it great... if they don't they will know you are pulling for the cause.... not simply throwing rocks..

I think the ASIA board seems pretty committed to fixing what ails them, and I think that we (as members) should give them the support they need to do it. They seem pretty frank about thier problems -- and I think that shows hope that the organization may be on the right path.

While I am sure that your post above was well intentioned that only stirs the pot.

I am not trying to offend you... honestly, I'm not... but it seems like you are waiting to be led. I think your ideas are solid... grab the bull by the horns and go for it.

Worst case you learn a little about some interesting people who share your obsession.

I very much subscribe to the philosophy that it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.bpoling38407.8520833333

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

A lot of good stuff said here. It's great to see so many comments regarding the issue. Shows folks care!

I've been a member of ASIA for several years. Seems that most of the concerns have been covered here. My comments are regarding articles.

I have had a few articles published by both ASIA and GAL. In both cases the leaders, Rick in this case, are very helpful and flexible with regard to what they need to get your article published.

This is not meant to be a criticism but we spend a lot of time on forums. Just think how long it takes to craft a five or six paragraph comment on this forum. I'll bet some of us spend as much time on the forums as we do making instruments! - Na! -but what I will bet is that all of us have trick or two up our sleeve we could share in an ASIA Guitarmaker quarterly by taking just a few hours away from the forums.

Several people who frequent this forum I]have submitted articles to ASIA. Tim McKnight was published in the Spring 04 issue. Hank Maul, Craig Lavin, and Sylvan had great articles in the Summer issue. I've also seen articles by Boll Moll, David Berkowitz and John Hall. And I'm probably missing a few.

So jump in there folks. Even you new people likely have something to offer.